Posts by Disillusioned JW

16

Experiences with kiss up kick down Jehovahs witnesses

by hoser in

jw
friends

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/kiss_up_kick_down.

i’ll go first.. in a previous congregation we had a pioneer couple that have since gone on to be gilead graduates and are now either in circuit work or translation.

they checked all the boxes off the societies list so they were exemplary.

Disillusioned JW

The WT shouldn't even apply the scripture the way they do, since the scripture (of not taking fellow Christians to court) is talking about those who believe they will go to heaven and judge angels, yet these days hardly any elders in the congregations claim to have that hope. Hardly any congregational elders claim to be of the anointed. Furthermore, only an extremely tiny percentage JWs living since the 1950s claims to be of the anointed.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro, it was as I described it above. If by record you mean a written record, the answer is no. I had no need for such for I had no intention to report it to anyone (other than to a close friend of mine). I only posted it here because someone asked me if I really think the future might already exist - and even then I hesitated to post it. Yes the 'predictions' can easily be attributed to making guesses, specifically educated guesses. After all I said, "I mention these examples not to convince anyone of the possibility of the block universe model of time and the possibility of calling to mind future observational events of one's life". Perhaps these examples are nothing more than what would be expected from making educated guesses. It was by thinking of prior times that a police car passed me by that I got the idea that a police car would pass me by on a specific road in a specific direction on the particular occasion mentioned.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Hi Jeffro. Thank you very much for your reply. Earlier today, before reading minutes ago your reply, I became much more convinced of your idea regarding the visions of Daniel. That was a result of reading the following sources today: https://www.livius.org/articles/misc/daniel-11-in-context/ and Irwin's Bible Commentary, in regards to what it says about the book of Daniel. Thanks for providing your link to your page on wordpress .

Regarding my experiment, the actions observed were what other people did near by me.

The first one was that a woman on roller skates, who was near me, would fall within a minute while next me after passing me. That very soon happened but on the opposite of me than what I expected (after she passed back to where she was earlier). Her falling while to the left of me was the reverse of where I 'predicted' she would fall moment earlier.

In the other experiment I 'predicted' that a police car (whether a regular city police car or a Sheriff's car) would pass me by from behind me (while I was on the bus I was on at the time) before the bus turns left onto a different street. Several minutes later while the bus was waiting at a traffic light to make the left turn, a Sheriff's police car passed me from behind. Before that event happened, I changed my prediction to say a police car (whether a regular city police car or a Sheriff's car) would me pass me by from behind after the bus had turned left onto the other street. Before the previously mentioned police car passed me (while on the bus) by, a Sheriff's police car on the cross street passed me by (while the bus was waiting to make its left turn) from the right moving to my left. If the bus turned onto that street a half a minute earlier, it would been passed by from behind by that other police car. It was several minutes from my making the prediction (and from the time of me revising the prediction) before I heard the sound of the police cars and thus before I saw the police cars. Prior to hearing the siren of the first police car, I was starting to worry to my attempt of prediction, one which I had thought was very likely (like a memory, but of the future) wouldn't happen. Granted it didn't happen exactly the way I imagined it (I did not image it happen at the intersection, but rather well before; and later I thought it would be well after it), but what did happen was close enough to satisfy me and astonish me. Close in the sense of like how our memories (especially for some of us, including myself) of the past are partially inaccurate instead of perfect.

These are the two experiences I was referring to of my attempt to call to mind what I would observe in the near future. I mention these examples not to convince anyone of the possibility of the block universe model of time and the possibility of calling to mind future observational events of one's life, but rather to give a reason why I personally think such are plausible ideas.

I hope the above also answers regarding whether what I experienced was déjà vu. I also hope it answers your questions of what my controls were.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Another correction: Where I said "afterlife versus on afterlife" I meant to say "afterlife versus no afterlife".

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Correction to my prior post to Jeffro: I made a major typo where I hurriedly wrote "ESP is the same as supernatural." I meant to instead say "ESP is not the same as supernatural." In my view if ESP exists it is something natural not something supernatural.

Update: Something can be paranormal yet not supernatural. The words paranormal and supernatural are not identical in meaning, though many people think they have the same meaning.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

waton, in reply to your comment of "DJW, yes, for example I expect to be in upstate NY on April8 2024, at 3 pm, together with the shadow of the Moon, but do you believe that all that already exists?" I say the following. I think it is very possible that such exists, though such an idea is a strange one.

Based upon the idea, last night I did two experiments in which I tried to call to mind what I know (in the sense of present self learning what my future self knows what is happening at his time) will happen in the immediate future. I tried call to mind ('remember'/'member'?) my future observations in the same way I call to mind (remember) my past observations. To my astonishment I very soon experienced both events happening, though certain particulars were reversed. I was stunned. Experiences like those outcomes of my two experiments, as well as some other experiences, make me think that I might have some latent ESP ability.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro I state the following to you.

Nearly all of the Bible commentaries I have are ones I obtained while I was still a JW (though after I began greatly questioning WT teachings on the Bible. I refer to commentaries on the Bible to discover the meaning that the writers of the Bible meant to convey in what they wrote in the Bible. I want to know what the Bible's intended meaning is for each verse I am studying. After I discern that meaning I then ask myself if the Bible writers are correct in what they said, and at that stage I then investigate what atheistic scholars and nonreligious scientists and secular historians say on those topics. I don't look for flaws in a book before I learn what the book is trying to convey. If I mentally attack a book by looking for flaws in the book before understanding the book, I will likely in many cases be attacking a straw man idea of the book. Erecting a straw man argument to attack and idea is a logical fallacy and I wish to avoid making logical fallacies. I also refer to commentaries on the Bible verses because Bible commentaries are all about explaining Bible verses mean. Granted Bible commentaries are primarily written by people who believe in the Bible to at least some degree, and the vast majority of the commentaries I find are Christian ones (and most of those are Protestant ones, while some are ecumenical ones). It would be helpful if some atheistic scholars who write about Bible topics were to do so in the form of a commentary on the Bible so that people could more easily find the information. At least Isaac Asimov wrote a commentary on the Bible, but in it he says very little about the Seleucid period. His commentary doesn't cover the book of Daniel (or any biblical book) on a verse by verse basis for the entire book. Regarding the book of Daniel Asimov only comments on a small number of verses.

You wrote the following "nor to keep repeating information that has been posted on here for years. I have already linked to information about the book of Daniel in this thread". My reply to that is that I have not seen such information here. I didn't become very active on this until about two years ago, or so. As a result I know very little of what was written on this site prior to then. When I use the search engine feature of this site I notice it is of very little help to me. It is very hard for me find relevant posts on this site to what I am specifically looking for.

I did see your link about Christian tradition regarding the 70 weeks, but I didn't see (or at least I don't recall seeing) a link by you to information about the Seleucid period in regards to the book of Daniel. If I had seen such, I wouldn't have made the comments asking for you to document your assertions about the Seleucid period. Yes I know I can dig around the internet to see what atheistic scholars say about interpretations of the book of Daniel. But I was asking you to back up your claims because you (at least in my perception) kept urging readers to accept them and I saw very little offered by you in support of your claims. I was not alone in having this perception. scholar stated that he also had that same perception. There is a principle which says that the one making claims in an argument has the responsibility to prove his/her claims; that it not the responsibility of those who disagree with the claims to prove that the one making the claims is wrong.

Since you now saying you are not interested in persuading people to adopt your views, then I will stop asking you to back up the claims you made in this topic thread. I also might dig through all 45 pages of this topic thread so see if somewhere you "already linked to information about the book of Daniel in this thread". I also will probably try to find on the internet detailed documentation and argumentation (discussing the book on a verse by verse basis) in support of the idea that the visions in the book of Daniel pertain primarily to the Seleucid period. However, I think it will be very hard for me find such since atheistic writings are scarce in comparison to Christian writings. On the internet the number of Christian articles about biblical verses is several orders of magnitude greater than atheistic articles commenting on the same verses, thus making it hard to find the atheistic views on those verses.

Regarding your comment of "If you are willing to defer to supernatural ‘explanations’ for the author of Daniel supposedly having access to future events ... " I say the following. I defer to both religious interpretations and nonreligious interpretations. I am open minded as to my sources. I weigh the evidence and arguments presented by both sides. On many topics, including political topics, I weigh both pro and con arguments. For example, I do that regarding the following topics: creationism verses evolution (and evolutionism in general), pro-abortion verses pro-life, political conservative policies verses political liberal policies, supernaturalism versus atheistic naturalism, afterlife versus on afterlife, the idea of reality of no human caused climate change versus the idea of the reality of human caused climate change, ESP exists verse ESP does not exist, etc.

Furthermore, I was not claiming (or even saying it is possible) that the author of Daniel supposedly had access to future events by supernatural means. I was saying that the author of Daniel supposedly might have had access to future events by ESP means. ESP is the same as supernatural. In my view is that if ESP exists it is not something supernatural.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the idea of the past (namely, past events) still being in existence according to Einstein, see https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/12/28/einstein-believed-in-a-theory-of-spacetime-that-can-help-people-cope-with-loss/?sh=497b970e55d2 . There it says in part the following.

'Einstein did not reject the existence of time. Instead, he rejected the distinction between past, present, and future. This may seem like a minor difference, but it is not.

In this passage Einstein is referring to the “block universe” conception of spacetime. It’s hardly surprising that he accepted it, since although it came from the work of others (principally from Hermann Minkowski, one of Einstein’s teachers) it is the framework in which his own theories of special and general relativity are most naturally expressed.

The block-universe view of physical reality contains time, but in a way remarkably different to our usual conception. It presents a four-dimensional view in which all events across time and space are on an equal ontological footing, with no sense in which present events are judged more “real” or “actual” than past or future ones. It is also very difficult to recover any meaningful sense in which time “flows”.'

'Relativity merges space and time into a single fourth-dimensional structure known as spacetime. We should think of time the same way we think of space; just as all of space exists outside of our world and any point within space can be described by coordinates, all of time exists as well and any events that have happened or will happen already exist, described by their own coordinates within the universe. And the same way all coordinates in space are valid, all coordinates (or events) in time are valid as well, meaning that there should be no such distinctions as “past”, “present,” or “future”. The universe and life within it is not an organic thing that’s constantly changing and morphing. Instead it’s like a video where the present moment is merely a frame within that video. And that video, had we access to it, would reveal every event to ever take place in our universe, from beginning to end. This cosmos is known as the “block universe”, a place where change isn’t real and there’s nothing special about the present moment. Considering this on a philosophical scale brings into question the idea of free will.'

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

Disillusioned JW

scholar, I agree with you than some of Jeffro's posts contain comments which are nick picking - 'splitting hairs'. I notice that multiple times he said the same assertion, in an apparent effort to convince readers of the assertion, yet has provided little reasoning and little evidence in support of his oft repeated assertion.

20

NWT Revisions

by Jeffro in

there is mention on a wikipedia article that there was a 2006 revision of the nwt.

is this true?

what differences are there?

Disillusioned JW

Jeffro, until you said you know, it was not obvious that you know, despite the fact that it was 16 years when you said you didn't know. That is because people don't always find answers to questions, even after 16 years have elapsed. Furthermore, the posts prior to mine (in this topic thread) did not state there were actual differences in the punctuation (the exclusion of single brackets around words) and changes in the wording in part of the Appendix [that also includes a new chart to the NWT]).